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Bug 7735 - Reply-All to reject a moderated message does not work from Netscape Mail
Summary: Reply-All to reject a moderated message does not work from Netscape Mail
Status: RESOLVED INVALID
Alias: None
Product: obsolete
Classification: Unclassified
Component: collabnet (show other bugs)
Version: 3.x
Hardware: PC Linux
: P4 normal (vote)
Assignee: support
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2000-09-22 12:28 UTC by Jesse Glick
Modified: 2009-11-08 02:26 UTC (History)
0 users

See Also:
Issue Type: DEFECT
Exception Reporter:


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Description Jesse Glick 2000-09-22 12:28:03 UTC
When I get a message to moderate (e.g. from contrib@netbeans.org), hitting Reply
and Send to accept works fine. But the suggested technique for rejecting does
not work from Netscape Mail (4.75 Linux). The message says to Reply All and
remove all non-reject addresses. But in fact the reject message does not appear
at all. I get To: the accept message and CC: each of the following bogus
addresses: "Recipient", "list", "not", "shown:", and ";". This comes from the
"To: Recipient list not shown: ;" header in the message. The accept address is
in the Reply-To which makes it correctly into To: in the reply. The reject
address, in the From field, does not make it. Could this feature (of EZMLM I
suppose) be better tested, especially with Netscape Mail?
Comment 1 Unknown 2000-10-23 20:33:59 UTC
This is always the case.  Must edit

<list>-accept-<identifier>@<domain>
<list>-reject-<identifier>@<domain>

This has never really been a hassle for me.  In fact, I like it, since I see
what to do to reject it, but the "default" is always to accept it.  In most
(read 99.999% of the cases) this is the right option for the message.

Perhaps it is because I do it so much, but I would intensely dislike having to
take out the reject addy everytime I moderate a message.

Reopen the bug if you really find this disruptive to your style.

Keri Carpenter
Comment 2 Jesse Glick 2000-10-23 22:33:59 UTC
Please reread the bug text, I don't think you understood it at all. Yes the
default, when you hit Reply, should be just the accept-* address, and this
works. But the message says that to reject (which I do do sometimes, BTW), hit
Reply All and there will be accept-* and reject-*, and delete accept-* and send
to reject-*. This does *not* work. As I said, you in fact get a bunch of
garbage, which you have to delete all of them and then copy-paste the reject-*
address from the body of the message, a pain.
Comment 3 support 2000-10-23 22:41:59 UTC
I've seen exactly what jesse has described, and it is a bug in ezmlm.

We should investigate if this is fixed in the open source. It is low
priority but annoying.
Comment 4 Taska 2001-05-26 20:14:27 UTC
We need to test this in the current ezmlm on inst.
Internal Collabnet issue SC44.
Comment 5 Taska 2001-05-26 22:02:17 UTC
Accepting issues for support.
Comment 6 Taska 2001-06-05 21:51:48 UTC
Internal Collabnet issues SC44, PCN4385.  Issue extant on netbeans.inst; moved
to engineers.
Comment 7 Taska 2001-06-05 23:39:59 UTC
Setting internal Target Milestone of 2.0.
Comment 8 Taska 2001-06-05 23:50:03 UTC
Removing edk's cc; pertinent info on internal issue.
Comment 9 Taska 2001-06-16 00:57:00 UTC
This will be revisited in the SC2.0 timeframe.
Comment 10 Taska 2001-10-05 00:56:25 UTC
Reopening all RESOLVED REMIND Issues and marking them P5.
Comment 11 Taska 2001-10-09 23:15:55 UTC
Accepting issue.
Comment 12 Taska 2001-10-12 20:42:09 UTC
Accepting.
Comment 13 Jesse Glick 2002-01-07 11:41:11 UTC
Also occurs with Mozilla 0.9.7 mail client BTW.
Comment 14 Taska 2002-04-04 21:55:06 UTC
Moving this back into the "active" category, as the target milestone
of this is once again unclear.
Comment 15 Unknown 2002-08-22 02:48:01 UTC
Looking into an update on this issue.
Comment 16 Unknown 2002-10-28 22:58:46 UTC
Just a quick update:
We are researching the target milestone for this issue. We 
will keep you updated as information becomes available, or 
at least touch bases with you again in 2 months. If this 
is not an acceptable timeframe, let us know in this issue.
Best Regards,
Jan Hickman
Comment 17 Unknown 2002-10-30 23:42:09 UTC
Change in our Update Plan:
Our plan is to update this issue in 2 weeks. Please let us 
know if there are any additional thoughts on this issue or 
concerns about the timeframe for the next update.
Jan
Comment 18 Unknown 2002-11-14 09:29:04 UTC
Update: Requested an update from Product Management.
Action Plan: Waiting for response.
Next Update: Within 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Kristen
Comment 19 Unknown 2002-11-26 04:04:15 UTC
Update: This issue is being considered for the Truckee 2 release of
SourceCast.
Action Plan: Awaiting confirmation from Engineering.
Next Update: By 12/13/02
Thanks,
Kristen
Comment 20 jveres 2002-12-18 17:09:15 UTC
update: no confirmation from the management as yet. I requested an
update through internal issue pcn 4835

Action plan: monitor internal issue for updates

next update: in two weeks.
Comment 21 jveres 2003-01-02 21:33:09 UTC
update: i requested an update from the management, yet again

action plan: waiting on reply
Comment 22 jveres 2003-01-28 00:15:30 UTC
update from our mail expert:

'[Research Update]
The following are a few links that briefly explain how messages are
accepted and rejected in ezmlm from a usage and technical perspective.
What's interesting about this is that these manuals never mention what
the moderator in our ezmlm version really receives. Hence, using the
'Reply-To-All' button for reject is not mentioned! Instead it is
suggested to either click on the 'mailto:' link or cut and paste the
reject address into a new message.

Looking up other web-sources my final conclusion is that this is a bug
in the text description the moderator receives on how to reject a
message. In fact, the way it is described as of today in our ezmlm
version for moderation messages doesn't match how MUAs are technically
implemented (see also RFC 2822).If 'Reply-To' is available all
responses should go to its specified address.
Whatever choice is made in MUAs, 'Reply to sender' or 'Reply to all',
the 'From' header won't be considered anymore. I verified this with
Netscape, Mozilla.It applies to all of them. And this is exactly what
we see if you analyse the headers in the mail messages. The reject
message is in the 'From' header.
The documents suggest to either click on the reject address or cut and
paste it into a new message. Unfortunately, many documents I found in
the internet in regards to ezmlm describe the wrong behavior. But the
original ezmlm manuals don't!

  http://ezmlm.org/ezman-0.32/ezman2.html#ss2.2
   http://ezmlm.org/faq-0.40/FAQ-4.html#ss4.18
   http://ezmlm.org/faq-0.40/FAQ-13.html#ss13.15

Please don't get confused by all these version numbers. Ezmlm has its
own way of confusing everybody.

An additional resource about 'Reply-To Harmful'
   http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

As well as the important part of RFC 2822:
   http://www.zvon.org/tmRFC/RFC2822/Output/chapter9.html

[Conclusion]
The only thing we should do to avoid further confusion is to change
the text that comes with the moderated message and replace it with
what is written in 'http://ezmlm.org/ezman-0.32/ezman2.html#ss2.2'

BTW If messages are not rejected or accepted within five days, ezmlm
automatically rejects them and sends a note to the sender but not to
the moderator anymore.
There won't be any other way to deal with this except we're trying to
define new rules for how MUAs are supposed to work and then we had to
modify ezmlm to deal with this. That's most likely not what we want.'
Comment 23 Jesse Glick 2003-01-29 00:35:36 UTC
"The only thing we should do to avoid further confusion is to change
the text that comes with the moderated message and replace it with
what is written in ..." - OK, should be fine. In fact from Mozilla
Mail I find it quick enough to TAB to the mailto: link and use that
anyway (for either approve or reject).
Comment 24 jveres 2003-02-21 14:55:47 UTC
update: this will be resolved in the upgrade

closing. will verify it after the upgrade.
Comment 25 Unknown 2004-11-04 07:07:28 UTC
Updating WB.
Comment 26 Unknown 2004-11-04 07:08:23 UTC
Moving this to Resolve Remind Q.
Comment 27 Unknown 2007-04-17 09:53:11 UTC
Reopning the issue to verify with jglick.
Comment 28 Unknown 2007-04-17 09:54:44 UTC
jglick: Could you please verify this and let us know if this is fixed?
Comment 29 Jesse Glick 2007-04-17 17:15:39 UTC
It is not fixed. Tested today using Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 using a moderation
message that came in today.

From: dev-reject-1176810322.10044.ajekdijaibdneijbikkl@openide.netbeans.org
Sender: dev-return-@openide.netbeans.org
To: Recipient list not shown: ;
Cc:
 dev-allow-tc.1176810322.ceelinmhiondgfoakoko-cmt=kengu.ru@openide.netbeans.org
Reply-to: dev-accept-1176810322.10044.ajekdijaibdneijbikkl@openide.netbeans.org

BTW when you do a Reply All, besides the *-accept-* address which causes the
message to go through to the list, there is another address such as the
*-allow-tc* above. I don't know what this address does; the moderator message
does not mention it. What does "allow TC" mean? (If it adds the sender to the
allowed posters list, that would be extremely helpful, since otherwise I need to
log in to the site, go to a bookmark with the allowed poster list, and copy and
paste in the email address, which is a drag.)

I don't consider this issue much of a priority since I practice I rarely reject
messages; I just delete the moderator's message and let it time out and be
rejected after a week or whatever, which is not an issue for most such messages
since they are spam, not just misguided but sincere users. That is, I usually
only reply to messages I want to accept.
Comment 30 Jesse Glick 2007-04-18 12:16:20 UTC
Indeed, I just experimented on it today (with broken_builds@netbeans.org and a
message from sergeyp@netbeans.org) and it seems that the *allow-tc* address does
indeed add the sender to Allowed Posters for the list, which will save me a lot
of time! Thus, to approve a message, Reply; to approve and add poster to allowed
list, Reply All.

So this is pretty convenient the way it is. Leaving open because

1. The "Recipient list not shown" ought not to be included (you have to delete
it manually still).

2. As a matter of documentation, the moderator's message should say what
*allow-tc* does.

3. As a matter of documentation, the moderator's message should not falsely
claim that Reply All can be used to reject a message. You need to copy the
*reject* address and send a separate mail in order to do this.
Comment 31 Unknown 2007-08-06 14:54:48 UTC
In the new CEE release 5.0 mailing list & Discussion forums have been modified to form Discussions.This will be 
verified once NB is upgraded to 5.0. 

Regards,
Ramya
Support Operations
Comment 32 Unknown 2007-08-09 13:35:22 UTC
Marking this issue as Remind, since it will be verified when Netbeans is upgraded to CEE 5.0
Comment 33 Unknown 2009-01-16 12:28:55 UTC
Please find below a sample of a moderate request which is how to accept/reject the message in new DS 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MODERATE request for Developers <dev@ramyatest.cee-latest.sjc.collab.net>

The enclosed message was submitted to the dev discussion. To approve it for distribution to all subscribers, e-mail
dev-accept-305@ramyatest.cee-latest.sjc.collab.net.

Usually, this happens when you hit the "Reply" button. Just check the address to make sure that it looks like
"dev-accept-305@ramyatest.cee-latest.sjc.collab.net".

If this does not work, copy the address and paste it into the "To:" field of a new message.

To prepend comments to the original message body, insert them between the two delimiter lines below.

To reject the post and return it to the sender, send a message to "dev-reject-305@ramyatest.cee-latest.sjc.collab.net".

Usually, it is easiest to hit the "reply-to-all" button, and then remove all the addresses except the one containing
"dev-reject-305@ramyatest.cee-latest.sjc.collab.net".

You do not need to copy the post in your response to accept or reject it. To include comments in an email to the
original poster, insert them between the following two delimiter lines: 

%%% comment start
%%% comment stop

Thank you for your help! --- Enclosed, please find the posted message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Comment 34 Unknown 2009-01-16 12:29:58 UTC
Marking as Resolved Fixed, as per Collab's policy.
Comment 35 Unknown 2009-01-23 05:22:51 UTC
Setting TM
Comment 36 Marian Mirilovic 2009-11-08 02:26:49 UTC
We recently moved out from Collabnet's infrastructure