[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

  • From: trhouse < >
  • To:
  • Subject: [nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA
  • Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:22:32 -0500

Yeah I probably shouldn't have pulled the trigger on that one without revising it. Oh well, there's some honesty for ya. Intellij the product is excellent even at that. The general eco-system around it is not for me.


On 11/26/2012 4:44 PM, Benno Markiewicz wrote:
Wow. First time i read something negative about IDEA.
Am 26.11.2012 00:26, schrieb trhouse:
I am an Intellij refuge. Intellij is a good IDE but there's one thing that Netbeans does a lot better than Intellij- they enable you to write plugins.

If you're like me, your IDE is broken unless you can write plugins. I reason that since I am going to be spending the next decade or decades sitting here typing at my IDE for a living that I should take seriously the idea that improving my tooling will pay great dividends to me and my career. Therefore, I want to be able to understand my IDE and program it and improve it. While I am programming just doing my ordinary work, ideas pop into my mind all the time about how I would like my IDE to do this or that. I write them down. I have about, oh I don't know 150-200 different improvements I wanted to make to Intellij- everything from things it couldn't do that would save me boatloads of time to little tweaks that would make my life significantly easier and code comprehension more tractable to at least a couple really revolutionary and very doable ways of doing this thing we call "programming in an IDE".

After using Intellij for like , five years, I came to the conclusion that if I was ever going to implement any of them
it wasn't going to be in Intellij. There's zero javadoc to speak of. There's zero help to speak of. There's zero architectural documentation to speak of. The plugins that do exist stop working as soon as a new version comes out and are just abandoned by their authors. Occasionally there's some spurt of energy directed towards documenting their IDE , then it just goes nowhere and it's never updated and the years roll by and it's never updated.

Finally the cincher for me was the attitude I saw other people get who were obviously enthusiastic, obviously competent, obviously willing and able to create addons to the IDE if they could just get some questions answered. I saw person just get sort of ignored and curtly replied to by the intellij engineers who clearly had like zero interest in answering questions which were mysteries because if the javadoc authorship is to believed, they could be bothered to document what they were doing when they wrote the code.

It's a mindset in programming. It's something like - "If you're too stupid to figure it out, then we don't want you on our "team" anyways..." and Intellij isn't the first place I've seen it. It's a completely stupid, sort of defensive snarling attitude to take to other devs who realistically have no way of knowing how a gigantic code base is structured or what the classes do and it's an attitude conveniently relieves them of having to do something they are anyways naturally disinclined to do - articulate what it is they've done.

It's such a transparently self-serving mindset- as though something as complex as an IDE could be "self documenting" just because youUsedLongVariableNames. . I think of it as "guarding the mystery" or less grandly "protecting your competitive knowledge edge from other devs". Whatever it is, it infects some programing departments and basically comes to define how they interact with "outsiders" . I found Intellij to be completely infected with this attitude and the longer I stayed and the more longitudinal my POV became, the worse it seemed to me.

When you choose an IDE, you choose a community. If you are ambitious WRT to the IDE, if you have itches you want to scratch- and these are the really creative people who make contributions to the subculture we all belong to- then that community is going to define and limit you as much as the tool itself over the long term . You need to choose wisely. You can't do it all yourself. What you want is an IDE with a good architecture , well and continuously documented, with people who are not anti-social feces throwing monkeys looking to protect their turf.

Netbeans -the - community is pretty friendly. People will answer your questions if they can. People are always working to make things clearer, which is the most significant, impartial and far reaching form of pro-social behavior there is. If you want to program to your IDE, you think of your IDE as an investment of your time. You want it to pay long term dividends.





writing to On 11/25/2012 4:57 PM, Ed Hillmann wrote:
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Francisco Diaz Trepat - gmail < <mailto: >> wrote:

Hi guys, I'm your only voice at work, and not a good one, I'm always
taking punches for using a different IDE, everyone uses IDEA or ecplise
    and I use netbeans since 4.6 probably.

    But since I never used another IDE I don't know what to reply.

If there are any converted among you please tell me some comparisons that
    would be nice to say.

    In what way is Netbeans better that IDEA?

eclipse is such a hastle with plugin failing without any trace of error
    than I don't have too much trouble with it.

    thanks,
    f.


My personal preference is it's (in my opinion) better integration with Maven. It doesn't try to import maven, it uses maven. Not only in building, but also as the the pom.xml file as the definition of where things are. When you open Maven project, it all just works without importing, etc. I really love how NetBeans can locate the source for artifacts, either when the source jars are available or if it knows how to find the source project from your history. And, it just does it.

What I've found in IntelliJ is you have to import the POM into its own internal structure. Then you have to know what facets to apply to which parts of the IDE where. I'm a very simple person. There are people who use IntelliJ here at work as well. And the number of times things behaved different in their IDEA as opposed to the maven build (which is what our automated processes use) is quite frequent. Because things didn't get imported, or they didn't get imported correctly, or because what is executed within IntelliJ is just different enough from the Maven project.

I'm a simple person. :) NetBeans provides me all the functionality I need, and I don't need to renew a license every year. Again, personal preference, but trying IntelliJ after using NetBeans for a long time, I found it way too busy, too much information on the screen. And I can never figure out how to drive Eclipse. I'm happy to chalk this up to personal preference, and not something to qualify.

It was also really nice to be the only person here who could connect their profiler to a troublesome process inside of two minutes.

In the end, we all have our crutch of choice. Maybe I've always just understood NetBeans, and I'm so used to how it operates that using another IDE now requires a learning curve. There are nice things about any IDE. I actually really like the Scala IDE, which is based on Eclipse. This is one of those arguments you're never going to win. If you're allowed to use whatever tool you want, use what works best for you. It's all about what you are most productive with.





[nbusers] Netbeans Vs IDEA

Francisco Diaz Trepat - gmail 11/23/2012

[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

Ed Hillmann 11/25/2012

[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

trhouse 11/25/2012

[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

Benno Markiewicz 11/26/2012

[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

trhouse 11/27/2012

[nbusers] Re: Netbeans Vs IDEA

Francisco Diaz Trepat - gmail 11/27/2012

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